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Super Smash Bros. Competitive Discussion

Smash Ultimate Ruleset (Tentative)

I would like to open up this thread to discuss the ruleset for Smash Ultimate as information comes to light. For anyone (I assume everyone here) who has seen the most recent Smash direct, there's obviously a lot of new content and changes to the game that will influence the ruleset for this particular instalment. Including, but not limited to:

Custom Balance Switch
Hazard Switch
Smash Meter
Abundance of possible legal stages (FD may now be a counterpick)
Stage Morph
Going back to 3 stock?
Preferred Omega & BF stages

Obviously this will all be subject to change, but good to discuss nonetheless.
08/21/2018 01:52:14

My first thoughts regarding stages are as follows:

Starters:
Battlefield
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 2 (Providing hazard switch stops transformations)

Possible Counterpicks:
Final Destination
Wario Ware, Inc (Hazards off)
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshi's Island
Kalos Pokemon League (Hazards off)
Mushroom Kingdom U (Hazards off)
Frigate Orpheon (Hazards off)

Borderline:
Town & City (Platforms dragging people off isn't fun)
Skyloft (If hazards being off means it sits on a decent transformation)
Mario Circuit (Same as Skyloft)
Port Town (Same as Skyloft)
Dreamland (Hazards off, but too similar to BF imo)
Yoshi's Story (Hazards on or off I'm not sure, but also very similar to BF)
Lylat Cruise (If they've fixed the ledges)
08/21/2018 02:12:25

I kinda feel the transformations make Pokemon Stadium 2 and would be sad to lose. But that could just be me.

I also like Town & City.
08/21/2018 03:30:35

woops lol
08/21/2018 03:32:32

Victoria Fox
Pudge
  • Wii U: anchorboy7
  • 3DS: 2234-7260-0931
Counterpicks are dumb and arguing about stages we don't know the intricacies of is dumber stick to something useful like discussing parameters of what we think makes a good stage
08/21/2018 03:35:26

To address the OP:

-What is Custom Balance Switch?
-Hazards turned off except possibly on stages where the hazard is integral to the stage (Dreamland, PS2, Yoshi's Story etc.)
-Hard NO to Stage Morph, dunno why people are even talking about it.
-Yes definitely try 3 stock again.
-Smash meter banned to start with, if 3 stock proves to be too slow, consider trialing smash meter as a way of speeding up 3 stock games instead of needing to revert to 2 stock.
-I'm all for not using Omega/BF stages unless absolutely necessary.

EDIT: Also ^ @ what Pudge said. Hard to make a judgement call on stage list without playing them all first. Hence I didn't comment on it.
08/21/2018 03:41:46

Obviously this is all speculation (hence the word 'Tentative' in the title of the thread). No one needs to argue, it's just a thread to consider the multitude of new mechanics added.

Custom Balance looks to be the ability to turn rage off. If this ends up being the case, I'd strongly agree to it being switched off as a standard.

I can get behind the idea of not turning off hazards for stages that use them well.

I also think stage morph should be turned off from the outset.

I'm interested in trying Smash meter, with the intent of play testing it in early events. I've always been more about trying new things and retracting them, rather than saying no to begin with. You don't get much chance to test viability otherwise.

I'm probably in the minority, but I much prefer 3 stock. I basically dropped Smash 4 when QLD went from 3 stocks to 2.
08/21/2018 03:49:37

Queensland Mewtwo
Joz
  • Wii U: Jozuya
I am for the idea of no counterpick stages.
It seems obvious to not include smash meter or stage morph, but they will make fun side brackets.
Hazards on or not for some of the stages are yet to be seen, honestly most stage related stuff will have to wait till we get to release date.
If we can turn rage off, lets do it.
Also, pudge, its hard defining what makes a stage legal or not. Smash stages tends to be Jank, but the less jank, the more competitive the stage is. There are never going to be a set of rules which define jank, jank is inherently janky. But stage hazards off could make 25+ stages viable. Who the fuck knows until we play the god damn thing. So lets stick with a few favourites, guaranteed to be less janky, until we can see the full picture. (maybe like 1 or 2 months in).

So maybe like:
BF, FD, SV, FoD/Yoshi's and PS2
08/21/2018 03:52:32

I'd probably be for turning Rage off if that's the case.

I'm curious on Smash meter too but quite apprehensive. I also would rather more stocks if the game is fast enough. But I fully understand the concerns of TO's when game times get long.
08/21/2018 03:54:52

Blurry said:
I'd probably be for turning Rage off if that's the case.

I'm curious on Smash meter too but quite apprehensive. I also would rather more stocks if the game is fast enough. But I fully understand the concerns of TO's when game times get long.


From what I can tell, the damage has been upped in this game, so I imagine the speed will go along with that. I think 3 stock makes it more probable that the more consistent/better player wins.
08/21/2018 04:01:36

Tasmania Jigglypuff
SpaceJam
  • Wii U: Supertickles
Pudge said:
Counterpicks are dumb and arguing about stages we don't know the intricacies of is dumber stick to something useful like discussing parameters of what we think makes a good stage


Ily.

I would say something like this.

-No Walkoffs during any part
-No Stage Hazards
-No janky shit like lylat edges/falling through the stage. I feel with this many stages you can rule these out.
08/21/2018 04:04:56

Victoria Fox
Pudge
  • Wii U: anchorboy7
  • 3DS: 2234-7260-0931
Joz said:
I am for the idea of no counterpick stages.
It seems obvious to not include smash meter or stage morph, but they will make fun side brackets.
Hazards on or not for some of the stages are yet to be seen, honestly most stage related stuff will have to wait till we get to release date.
If we can turn rage off, lets do it.
Also, pudge, its hard defining what makes a stage legal or not. Smash stages tends to be Jank, but the less jank, the more competitive the stage is. There are never going to be a set of rules which define jank, jank is inherently janky. But stage hazards off could make 25+ stages viable. Who the fuck knows until we play the god damn thing. So lets stick with a few favourites, guaranteed to be less janky, until we can see the full picture. (maybe like 1 or 2 months in).

So maybe like:
BF, FD, SV, FoD/Yoshi's and PS2


no we do know what makes things "jank" (I hate the term its lost all meaning)

pretty much what spacejam said above
SpaceJam said:
Pudge said:
Counterpicks are dumb and arguing about stages we don't know the intricacies of is dumber stick to something useful like discussing parameters of what we think makes a good stage


Ily.

I would say something like this.

-No Walkoffs during any part
-No Stage Hazards
-No janky shit like lylat edges/falling through the stage. I feel with this many stages you can rule these out.
Oh I almost forgot, Attila had a good system, red flags and yellow flags.

Red Flags are Stage Hazards, Walk Offs, caves of Life etc, this would mean instant bans with very little testing

Yellow flags are uneven stage layouts, sharkable bottoms etc. We test these but have to scrutinize them carefully. I think its a pretty good system to think about. and argue what makes something a yellow or a red flag
08/21/2018 04:38:32

Frigate Orpheon for metroid music please
also keep the hazard on I like the flipping
08/21/2018 05:35:36

Queensland King Dedede
Exist
  • Switch: SW-5001-3317-9049
  • Wii U: Mr_Parchy
I'm all for stage hazards off as standard. This is something we've been asking for for years.
As far as other red flags go, water is bad in general and so are walls in the middle of stages (think Corneria). Also scrolling stages and any stages that are very large
Given that and some of the things said above, I'll come up with a list of all stages and how competitively viable I think they are.
Okay, Here's that list. People may disagree with things. Let me know your thoughts. Input on the stages that I didn't know well enough would be appreciated

Battlefield: Green Flag
Big Battlefield: Red Flag (Too Large)
Final Destination: Green Flag
Peach's Castle: Red Flag (Walls in sky seem jank)
Kongo Jungle: Yellow Flag (Sharking is Possible)
Hyrule Castle: Red Flag (Too Large)
Super Happy Tree: Yellow Flag (Slanted Ground also Clouds in distance)
Dream Land: Green Flag
Saffron City: Yellow Flag (Irregular ground)
Mushroom Kingdom: Red Flag (Walk Offs)
Princess Peach's Castle: Red Flag (Wall in Stage Centre)
Rainbow Cruise: Red Flag (Auto Scroller)
Kongo Falls: Yellow Flag (Platform on side of stage and sharking)
Jungle Japes: Red Flag (Water)
Great Bay: Red Flag (Water)
Temple: Red Flag (Too large, Cave)
Brinstar: Yellow Flag (Uneven Terrain)
Yoshi's Island (Melee): Red Flag (Walkoff)
Yoshi's Story: Green Flag
Fountain of Dreams: Green Flag
Green Greens: Yellow Flag (Platforms at Side of stage)
Corneria: Red Flag (Too large, wall in centre of stage)
Venom: ###No Idea Never Used Please Help###
Pokemon Stadium: Green Flag
Onett: Red Flag (Walk Offs)
Mushroom Kingdom II: Red Flag (Walk Offs)
Brinstar Depths: Red Flag (Uneven Terrain, Rotating Stage)
Big Blue: Red Flag (Just No)
Fourside: Red Flag (Wall in Centre Stage)
Delfino Plaza: Red Flag (Walkoffs, Water, Sharking, Uneven Terrain)
Mushroomy Kingdom: Red Flag (Auto Scroller)
Figure 8 Circuit: Red Flag (Walk Offs)
Warioware, Inc.: Green Flag if Hazard Toggle removes transformation, otherwise Red Flag
Bridge of Eldin: Red Flag (Walk Offs)
Norfair: Yellow Flag (Very Small Main Platform)
Frigate Orpheon: Green Flag
Yoshi's Island: Yellow Flag (Side Platforms [Maybe?] and uneven ground)
Halberd: Yellow Flag (Sharking, Transformations)
Lylat Cruise: Yellow Flag (Stage Tilting)
Pokemon Stadium 2: Green Flag
Port Town Aero Dive: Red Flag (See Big Blue)
Castle Siege: Red Flag (Walk Offs)
Distant Planet: Red Flag (Walk Offs)
Smashville: Green Flag
New Pork City: Red Flag (Too large, walls)
Summit: Red Flag (Walls, Water)
Skyworld: Red Flag (Walls, Janky Edges)
Shadow Moses Island: Red Flag (Walls, Walkoff)
Luigi's Mansion: Red Flag: (Walls and Stuff)
Pirate Ship: Red Flag (Water)
Spear Pillar: Red Flag (Cave)
75 m: Red Flag (It's 75m)
Mario Bros.: Red Flag (Walls)
Hanenbow: Red Flag (No Main Platform)
Green Hill Zone: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
3D Land: ###Again, Help. I Don't Remember This Stage###
Golden Plains: ###See Above###
Paper Mario: ###And Again###
Gerudo Valley: ###Once Again###
Spirit Train: Red Flag (Ground drags you away)
Dream Land GB: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Unova Pokemon League: ###Apparently I really don't know 3ds stages###
Prism Tower: Yellow Flag
Mute City SNES: Red Flag (No Main Platforms)
Magicant: ###No Clue###
Arena Ferox: Red Flag (Walls)
Reset Bomb Forest: ###Not Sure###
Tortimer Island: Red Flag (Water)
Baloon Fight: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Living Room: ###Not Sure how this will work with Hazards Off###
StreetPass Quest ###No Clue###
Tomodachi Life: ###Again...###
PictoChat 2: ###Not Sure How This Will work With Stage Hazards Off###
Mushroom Kingdom U: Red Flag (Bad Transformations)
Mario Galaxy: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Mario Circuit: Red Flag (Walls)
Skyloft: Red Flag (Walls and Stuff)
The Great Cave Offensive: Red Flag (Show me one person who likes this stage)
Kalos Pokemon League: Assuming No Transformations, Green Flag. Otherwise Red Flag
Coliseum: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Flat Zone X: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Palutena's Temple: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Gamer: Green Flag? (Is there anything wrong with this stage hazardless?)
Garden of Hope: Red Flag (Too Large, Potentially Other Stuff)
Town and City: Yellow Flag (Some Jank With Platforms Leaving)
Wii Fit Studio: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Boxing Ring: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Gaur Plain: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Duck Hunt: Yellow Flag (People Hate this stage for some reason don't they?)
Wrecking Crew: Red Flag (Too Vertical)
Pilotwings: ###Why Wasn't this stage legal again?###
Wuhu Island: Red Flag (Walls, Water, and Walkoffs)
Windy Hill Zone: Red Flag (Too Big, Other Jank)
Wily Castle: Green Flag
Pacland: Red Flag (AutoScroller)
Super Mario Maker: Red Flag (Jank Stage)
Suzaku Castle: Red Flag (Walkoffs)
Midgar: Green Flag
Umbra Clock Tower: Red Flag (Walls)
New Donk City Hall: ###New Stage, No Clue###
Great Plateau Tower: Red Flag (Walls)
Moray Towers: Red Flag (Too Vertical)
Dracula's Castle: ###No Clue, New Stage###
That's 14 Green Flags and 13 Yellow Flags, and a bunch I don't know about. That's a lot of potentially viable stages
08/21/2018 11:04:14

Queensland Fox
hopedealer
  • Wii U: smileyanator
Final destination fox only

Items off except
Pokeballs set to high
08/21/2018 20:28:20

Victoria Diddy Kong
Piski
  • Wii U: Dinoman033
  • 3DS: 2277-6758-5746
Exist said:
Venom: ###No Idea Never Used Please Help###
3D Land: ###Again, Help. I Don't Remember This Stage###
Golden Plains: ###See Above###
Paper Mario: ###And Again###
Gerudo Valley: ###Once Again###
Unova Pokemon League: ###Apparently I really don't know 3ds stages###
Magicant: ###No Clue###
Reset Bomb Forest: ###Not Sure###
Living Room: ###Not Sure how this will work with Hazards Off###
StreetPass Quest ###No Clue###
Tomodachi Life: ###Again...###
PictoChat 2: ###Not Sure How This Will work With Stage Hazards Off###
Pilotwings: ###Why Wasn't this stage legal again?###
stages



I can help explain some of these:

Venom: In melee there was short blastzones, walls appeared and Jiggs could camp under the airship.
3D Land/Golden Plains/Paper Mario/Gerudo Valley: Walk Offs (in Some Transformations)
Unova: Stage Hazzards and Stairs sometimes comes in from the side blastzones with walkoffs
Magicant: Flying men acted like assist trophies (this was the main issue). I've heard Right and bottom platform promoted camping as well
Reset Bomb Forest: Caves of lifes and Walk offs on some transformations
Living Room: Walk offs, Transformations can promote camping
StreetPass Quest: Disruptive stage hazzard, platform may promote camping
Tomodachi Life: Too large, promotes camping
PictoChat 2: Hazzards
Pilotwings: Villager (and other characters) can camp under the yellow plane
08/23/2018 06:13:58

Final Smash meter is dead

08/23/2018 11:23:09

Queensland King Dedede
Exist
  • Switch: SW-5001-3317-9049
  • Wii U: Mr_Parchy
Ooh, forgot to mention, I’m in the boat of trialing smash meter on. It’s easy to turn off if it’s trash.
08/24/2018 13:02:17

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